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[Andre Leroux]: Good evening, everyone. My name is Andre LaRue. I'm the chairman of the Medford Community Development Board. This is October 14, 2020. I call the Medford Community Development Board meeting open. Pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12, 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the Open Meeting Law, General Law, Chapter 30A, Section 18, and the Governor's March 15, 2020 order imposing strict limitation on the number of people that may gather in one place, this hearing of the Medford Community Development Board will be conducted via remote participation to the greatest extent possible. Specific information and the general guidelines for remote participation by members of the public and or parties with a right and or requirement to attend this meeting can be found on the City of Medford website at www.medfordma.org. For this meeting, members of the public who wish to listen or watch the meeting may do so by accessing the meeting link contained herein. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. In the event that we are unable to do so, despite best efforts, we will post on the City of Medford or Medford Community Media website an audio or video recording, transcript, or other comprehensive record of proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting. Due to streaming conflicts with other city meetings, this meeting will not be streaming live, but members of the public may access the proceedings in real time via Zoom, and a recording of the full meeting will be posted on the Medford Community Media website after the meeting. Just a reminder, to participate during the meeting, questions and comments may be emailed to OCD at Medford-MA.gov or submitted via phone to 781-393-2480. That's 781-393-2480. All votes will be roll call votes. And please, just a reminder, if you do speak to introduce yourself with your name and address.
[Nicole Morell]: And Andrej, Jackie is on her way. She is having some technical difficulties.
[Andre Leroux]: Okay, great. Thank you. Well, let's tackle the first item on the agenda, which is approval of minutes for the meeting of August 20th, 2020 and September 16th, 2020. Let's first minutes for August 20th. Any comments, questions, corrections by the board members? Seeing none, is there a motion to approve the minutes?
[David Blumberg]: Andre, this is Dave. I'd like to make a motion to approve the minutes from our August meeting.
[Andre Leroux]: Thank you. Is there a second? I see Klais. Roll call vote. Deanna Peabody. Yes. Katie McHugh.
[SPEAKER_07]: I was not present at the meeting.
[Andre Leroux]: So abstain?
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes, please.
[Andre Leroux]: Christy Dowd?
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: Klyce Andreasen? Is that a yes? David Blumberg? Yes. And Jackie, I see you've joined us. We were just voting, doing a roll call vote on the minutes for the August 20th meeting. Would you like to vote yay, nay, or abstain?
[Jacqueline McPherson]: Yes, I did preview materials prior to. I just, I can't figure out my laptop right now and I'm sorry.
[Andre Leroux]: That's okay, Jackie. All right, thank you. The minutes for September 16th, 2020 meeting. Any comments, questions or corrections? Seeing none, is there a motion on the floor to approve?
[David Blumberg]: Andrea, this is Dave. I'd like to make a motion to approve the minutes for our September 16, 2020 meeting. Great.
[Andre Leroux]: Thank you, David. Is there a second?
[SPEAKER_07]: I'll second. This is Katie McHugh.
[Andre Leroux]: Thank you, Katie. All right. Roll call vote. Deanna Peabody?
[Jenny Graham]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: Katie McHugh?
[Jenny Graham]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: Kristi Dowd?
[Jenny Graham]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: Klaus Andresen?
[Jenny Graham]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: David Blumberg? Yes. And Jackie Furtado?
[Jacqueline McPherson]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: Right, oh, and I'm a yes as well on both of those minutes, by the way. Thank you. Those are unanimously approved. The next item on the agenda is a request for extension of time for the Macklin Road subdivision. I'd like to invite the proponents, John Valdino and Michael Collins, to give a summary of where the project stands and and explain the extension, please.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, hi, this is Michael Collins. I'm the general contractor who was hired by John and Dave Kowalczyk, the owners of Balchak Properties, to build out the subdivision, the three houses and the road, and currently, We have lot two 100% completed, just waiting on a certificate of occupancy, which we hope to be issued tomorrow. Lot three, number 40 Macklin. should be done within two to three weeks. Another certificate of occupancy and a sale. And lot one is about 50% complete. It's framed and roofed. The windows and doors are going in tomorrow. and that should be completed by the end of January. Relative to the subdivision improvements, we have installed some of the roadway improvements, but realistically, most of them will occur in the spring after the winter season and relative We appreciate this meeting and relative to our request for an extension, you had graciously given us till October 9th to complete the subdivision. We have been hit by the COVID issue relative to some of our labor delays and certainly our material delays. But in general, we've done pretty well and been pretty expeditious on our building. And so we'd appreciate the extension through the end of June of next year.
[Andre Leroux]: Thank you, Mr. Valdina. Do you want to add anything or?
[jBTv0vMcUC8_SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. The only thing I was going to say, I think Andy was saying that we should get the, to the bond. extension to that time as well. Our barn runs out to the end of January. We talked to the lady at USI, Gail, and she said that they won't do six months, so we'll have to extend it for one year when that time comes, runs out in January. So we will definitely do that. However, we would like to try to get a reduction on the cost of the barn because we do have a lot more done on the road since the last time we did it. So I'm putting that together. Mike's gonna help me put that together for you guys to go over and look at and see what you can come up with for a reduction for us.
[Andre Leroux]: Right, now that estimate of work that's been completed needs to be reviewed and approved by the city engineer. So if you could work with him and then at our next meeting, we'd be in, I think, a position to approve
[jBTv0vMcUC8_SPEAKER_00]: you know, a request based on the engineer's evaluation of that, if that's... Yeah, we have plenty of, I mean, January, the end of January is when it runs out, so we have three or four months right now to get that figured out on the reduction. There was one more thing I was gonna say is... Oh, about who would we set up a meeting, this is not for this meeting, but who would we go with the engineer also, the city engineer, as far as the curbing and sidewalks, there's some we were trying to talk, want to go over that with him again before, you know, there might be some reduced curbing that we were thinking of. So that's something we talked to him.
[Andre Leroux]: Yeah, any that would be the person I would go to. Is that this?
[Nicole Morell]: Yeah. Would that be a change to the subdivision plans?
[jBTv0vMcUC8_SPEAKER_00]: You mean? Yeah, it could be. It's just there's some areas out after we have this road and stuff now looking at it. Kind of common sense looking at it. It just looks like we could eliminate some areas. But of course, that would have to be approved by, you know, you have to look at it with us.
[Nicole Morell]: Yeah, and that would have to be a request to the board who would be able to approve that type of a change, but I believe the board would likely want a recommendation from the city engineer on that as well.
[Andre Leroux]: So for both of those issues, we could come back at the following meeting and have his recommendations and evaluations. That would be good. So yeah, definitely follow up with him as soon as you can on both of those.
[Nicole Morell]: And you can actually coordinate through me in the office of community development and I can refer to him.
[jBTv0vMcUC8_SPEAKER_00]: That's all I have, really, on this.
[Andre Leroux]: OK, great. So for right now, the issue before the board for consideration is extension of the permit, so the subdivision permit. And would there be any questions or comments or discussion from the board members on that? Yes, class.
[zMDmsK0LIsU_SPEAKER_03]: You, um, can you just describe a little bit more of the level of, um, completion that has happened on the roadway?
[jBTv0vMcUC8_SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we have, well, uh, we have the binder down, um, you know, all the utilities are in. So basically we have a top coat to do. We have curb and sidewalks. Um, I think we have to raise a couple of manhole covers. It's very minimal that we have left to build over there.
[zMDmsK0LIsU_SPEAKER_03]: Remind me, it's concrete curbing?
[jBTv0vMcUC8_SPEAKER_00]: I think that's what was on the plan. Yeah, we were just wondering if asphalt could be done over there. Curbing? Oh, no, for North Dakota, I'm thinking sidewalks, I'm sorry. Yeah, curbing was, yeah.
[Andre Leroux]: So this is just for the extension that we'll have to get into those issues, I think at the next meeting.
[Nicole Morell]: And I'll just clarify that now that the road has been built to binder, it is the preference of the engineering division that the top coat wait until after the houses are complete for that to be installed. So that's in, compliance with their recommendation on that.
[zMDmsK0LIsU_SPEAKER_03]: I don't know where this stands, but I do have a recommendation from engineering as well on the sidewalk material.
[Andre Leroux]: Yeah, absolutely.
[zMDmsK0LIsU_SPEAKER_03]: Has the interface with the adjacent property, I know they had, it's a It's a place that services some of the handicapped folks. Has that all been resolved and squared away? And is that?
[jBTv0vMcUC8_SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, it really hasn't. No. In fact, I talked to Gail Ailes over there. She'd been very nice. They've been great with us. They're just a little bit worried about how this curb is going to come into effect. It's going to affect their access in and out of there. So that's one of the things I just wanted to be able to sit, you know, bring an engineer over there with somebody that specialized in that kind of, have them there too at the same time and have an explanation of what we can do over there to satisfy them and also satisfy the town too, so.
[zMDmsK0LIsU_SPEAKER_03]: My recommendation was that when you bring whatever scope of work you wanna do in that altered, changed scope of work, when you bring it to us, just make sure that it's abundantly clear what you're trying to do, whether it's a 3D drawing or something so that we can really understand it rather than just trying to read it.
[jBTv0vMcUC8_SPEAKER_00]: I'll have our engineer do that up with us, too. So I'll get him involved with that. Yep. I will say, though, the neighbors have been great. It didn't start out that way, but they've come to realize that it is what it is. They've been super over there. So it's been smooth sailing.
[Andre Leroux]: Other questions or comments from board members? Is there a motion on the floor to extend the Macklin Road subdivision permit for, and what's the length of time? Is that? June 30th. June 30th. Okay. So June 30th, 2021.
[Nicole Morell]: So moved. This is Jackie Furtado.
[Andre Leroux]: Thank you, Jackie.
[Nicole Morell]: And I'll just clarify, that'll be the timeline for completion.
[zMDmsK0LIsU_SPEAKER_03]: And that includes all the public right-of-way work.
[Andre Leroux]: Yes. Is there a second to the motion on the floor?
[Jacqueline McPherson]: Yeah, I'll second.
[Andre Leroux]: Thank you, Deanna. We will go to a roll call vote. Yes in favor, no against, and abstain. Deanna Peabody?
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: Katie McHugh?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: Christy Dowd.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: Klaus Andreessen.
[Jacqueline McPherson]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: David Blumberg. Yes. And Jackie Furtado.
[Jacqueline McPherson]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: I'm also a yes. So that permit extension has been approved. Thank you, gentlemen, for coming in today. And I think we'll probably see you next month.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much. Thank you very much.
[Andre Leroux]: Thank you. Take care. Bye. Right, so the next... How do I leave the meeting? Okay, bye-bye now. Right, so the main item on the agenda that we had for tonight, since we're trying to keep this meeting to an hour, which would be a nice refreshing change for everyone, is a discussion of the Medford zoning review that the city council is undergoing, and then also talk a little bit about our board rules, policies, and regulations. So it's a bit of an open-ended discussion. Can I just see how many of you were able to listen to the city council meeting before this? One, two, three. About half, all right, okay. I was able to participate. So I thought it was a very good presentation. I think what they covered, for those who didn't hear, were really the roles and responsibilities of the boards and also, I guess, the way Mark Berbrowski, who is the zoning consultant, he calls it like everybody's job description. He also went over the non-conforming lots and structures and how that's dealt with in the preamble to the zoning ordinance. So I'm really happy, actually. My impression was that I think that this language, if it's approved, will be a lot more clear than what we currently have and I think will be really helpful for everyone. One item that I'd like to raise, I guess, in terms of structuring our discussion, is raise the issue of whether we should, as a board, provide some feedback to the zoning consultant and or the city council about what the work that's been done so far, whether we have any comments or opinion about, you know, the roles and responsibilities for our board that have been laid out. And I think it might be good for us to put a short letter together to that effect and also raise any questions we might have for the zoning consultant or for the city council. Secondly, I know that we want to talk about design guidelines. And then thirdly, We have some very old procedures. We don't even really look at them. I think I had to ask Annie and myself whether we had them. And she said that they're very old. So we haven't really used these as a board. They date from the 70s, I think. So we were So we should probably put some board rules and regulations together for the Community Development Board. We are the ones with sole responsibility and authority to do so. I know the city council was asking whether they can kind of impose some rules and regulations on the boards, but the consultant said he really didn't think that was appropriate at all and legally questionable. So that's another area where we could you know, we could figure out like what we want to be, how we want to be operating as a board and codify that. So that's a lot. We don't have to get into all of it, but really want to give us a chance for the first time as a board to have a kind of an open-ended discussion about these matters. So let's start with the zoning consultant and what we've heard. And for those of you who participated, was there anything that, that concerned you or that you liked? What was your impression?
[SPEAKER_07]: I'll start. I also liked the piece about roles and responsibilities. I feel like having something really clear for board members, but more importantly for the public and people who engage with all the boards, it's so, municipal government is so complicated. I think the easier we can make that part, the better. So I thought that was a helpful. helpful piece.
[Andre Leroux]: Yeah, and I'll point out that the concerns that the Councilors seem to raise about the way boards operate, I don't think apply to us because there was concerns about, you know, meetings in the afternoon or, you know, inadequate, you know, community engagement or participation. I think, like, we've been pretty good on all of those things. We've gone as long as it needs to. Agreed. Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: We've gone to the next day. We've done our job.
[Andre Leroux]: I feel good about that. Yeah.
[Alicia Hunt]: There was some question on the city council agenda. I didn't watch it about was open meeting law violated if a public meeting ran into the next day, because then it was no longer posted for the right date. I didn't watch that section. I'd be curious to see whether they were discussing one of our meetings or something else, but I don't know.
[Andre Leroux]: We only went into about five minutes, five, 10 minutes, I think.
[Alicia Hunt]: I also thought it was kind of funny.
[Andre Leroux]: Yeah.
[Unidentified]: Yeah.
[Alicia Hunt]: Not the meeting, the question.
[Jacqueline McPherson]: Right. It's funny that that question came up though, because I have no legal background at all, but I do know that, If any time a meeting is legally represented and advertised, no matter what time it ends, it doesn't matter what time it ends, it matters what time it starts. So I'm guessing the legality behind that does not exist. That's just my assumption in dealing with so many different things at the state level.
[Alicia Hunt]: And sorry, I didn't mean to distract. I'm going to have to apologize. I have been in the office since before eight continuously. So I'm a little bit fried any with regards to the rules and regulations. So it's very easy for me to refer back to where you have on our share drive the reference resources. I don't know how easy it is for people, the rest of the commission to refer back to that location on the share drive. But is there something other than the rules and regulations of the subdivision of land that you're referring to?
[Nicole Morell]: So there are a couple of things. The rules and regulations of the subdivision of land that you're looking at, the last few pages of that have rules of the Medford Community Development Board governing organization and procedure. Thank you. That starts on page 34. And then there are also rules and regulations in relation to the site plan review, the board acting as the site plan review granting authority. And that's what I had circulated to everyone to have a discussion about that. But there are some other ones. The subdivision ones are much older. They're from the 70s. And so I can share this if you'd like, share my screen if you want to look at them or I could distribute them after the fact and we could touch base at a later meeting.
[Alicia Hunt]: Everybody had access to them if they wanted to review them as well. And for those of you who weren't at the meeting, they asked to see our rules and regulations and ZBAs. And I actually took an opportunity to tell them that ours were very old, that this board had been considering discussing revising them, but that our last several meetings had run over four hours. And so we just hadn't gotten to it yet, but that we were happy to share them as they stood. So I just wanted you guys to know that. That was kind of fair. And it also helped us sort of like, we're not having meetings that are too short.
[Andre Leroux]: Yeah. Well, Andy, I know I have paper, I have paper copies, like older paper copies of that. But is that something that people can access through the shared drive?
[Nicole Morell]: Yes, if you are able to access the full folder of CD board, Medford CD board, there's a folder called reference resources and it's in there. I know that sometimes if you're not linking it to your computer, it can be hard to get back to that main folder.
[Andre Leroux]: Yeah, I find whenever, like I just did it right now.
[Nicole Morell]: Oh, I'm happy to send it around again.
[Andre Leroux]: Yeah, if you could send it, like when I go in there and I just choose, I click on Medford CD board, the full thing, it only shows the meeting materials, the current meeting materials. I don't know why I can never get into the full folder. I don't know if that's just me or if others have that same issue.
[Alicia Hunt]: It'd be helpful to know. I mean, if, if it's something that doesn't work consistently for everybody that it's easier. I think, I don't know, we can troubleshoot stuff with our ideas to if that's helpful. Um, The whole SharePoint using this has been new since March for the city, really. So I think some of us are still figuring out how to work at best.
[Andre Leroux]: Yeah, I was just able to get into it with your link, Annie, that you sent. So for whatever reason, it seems like I need the exact link to make it work. Well, I don't think we need to really go over the old rules and regulations. So we can take a look at it at your leisure if you want to. But I think we should really think about what we want our procedures to be and really just codify what we're doing, which I think, for the most part, is working.
[Nicole Morell]: And I can also pull, the attorney during that meeting mentioned a couple of examples of neighboring communities who we thought had especially good rules and regulations. So I could pull those and distribute to you all.
[Andre Leroux]: Yeah, I got the Lexington one, which is the one he referenced that he said he did.
[David Blumberg]: I think he mentioned Winchester at one point. Maybe he was mixing the two, but he was also going to send those along.
[Andre Leroux]: So the Lexington ones are basically it's titled planning board procedural rules and it's five pages and it just goes over Let's see, board authority, membership, what happens when there's a vacancy, what about an associate member, roles and responsibilities, quorum, remote participation, who can speak on behalf of the board, officers, special study committees, board appointments, liaisons, planning staff, roles, and meetings. So it's not that much, like there's only, the last page is the one that just deals with meetings. So it's really just one page. And it's very, you know, it just kind of talks about when is the meeting. Like, you know, typically, and it even says, typically held on the first and third Wednesdays of each month in the town office building at 7 p.m., whenever possible. So it's not meant to like write everything in stone, but offer some guidance and flexibility. Anyways, we can circulate those and look at them.
[Nicole Morell]: And maybe I have a question. Was he saying that he didn't have a board at all.
[Andre Leroux]: That was what I that's what I got from that. Yeah, it seemed like a real just has instead of a planning board, they have a what's called a development board composed of department had city department heads. They have a very strong mayor system and the mayor has been there for like, I don't know, decades, so.
[Nicole Morell]: And that may have just been for a site plan review, because I believe a planning board would still need to do subdivisions and things like that. Because he seemed to say that they were doing a very good job with their downtown and using them as a good example. I don't know, that's what I got from his discussion, that part.
[Andre Leroux]: I think without getting into it much, I think it's a very strong mayor system, very top-down executive. I'm not sure it's the same kind of model we have here at Medford. And it's a little bit more distributed, the authority here.
[Jacqueline McPherson]: Not only that, I don't know the decision, but Haverhill does have a body, a legislative body actually that acts as a planning board. And they're actually considered a planning board now. So I'm not sure. It's definitely a planning commission because all city, Massachusetts cities and towns has to have planning commissions and their idea of a planning commission, I think just got changed to a planning board, but you might want to just, I don't know the conversation and I have not had a chance to look into this more, but Haverhill and you're right. The mayor does have a strong, presence there, top-down leadership, but they do have a planning board. They cannot not have one.
[Andre Leroux]: Yeah. But he also said, I think he was, you know, Mark Wrobrowski, who is a recognized zoning expert in Massachusetts law, is, you know, he was very supportive and encouraging of a planning board having the roles and responsibilities that are laid out here and thought that as long as, you know, we're willing to do the work, then that's a good thing. So I have a question. I don't know if, Annie, you can help out with this. Or maybe even David, I don't know. So a lot of our time is spent on site plan review. And he was proposing that we the city not call basically special permit with site plan approval, or whatever we call it, because it's really two different things. So I guess the question is, there is a set of criteria that triggers site plan review for certain projects. And is the way it happens in Medford, is that the right process, right? Generally, they kick it, they go to the ZBA, and then they kick it to us, and then it goes back to them for the variances, right? Annie, how exactly is the process supposed to look?
[Alicia Hunt]: I don't think so. They don't hear it first.
[Nicole Morell]: Yeah, it doesn't, it wouldn't go to them first, but we would be, if it requires variances, we make a recommendation to the ZBA.
[Andre Leroux]: It just comes to us first before the ZBA sees it. Is that right?
[Nicole Morell]: Yep. They're the same sort of time frame, like they could be submitted at the same time, and it could be under review by both boards. But the ZBA is supposed to wait for a recommendation from the CD board on that for the site plan review.
[Alicia Hunt]: That's one of the things that has been questioned a little, and I know that, This is something that our city engineer might have some advice on or what he's seen elsewhere is that there's both the need for variances in some of these cases and special permits. And in a number of these cases, one or the other of those has really been in question as to whether they were going to issue. And so whether or not that we should have an applicant go all the way through site plan review until we know if they're going to get stuff like that. Right, like a setback variance, they might not get and it might kill a project. But the one that was really project killing was the site was the use variances. And so like the project that we spent a lot of time with the one that was, I apologize, I always forget the street names, but the gas station and the car wash turning into a apartment building this summer, they were denied by the ZBA a use variance. And that just kills the project. You can't redesign that, right? If you redesign it, it has to come back to us for site plan because it's a completely different project. So whether a project like that should have gone through all this work But the way our processes are lined up, they didn't have a choice. They had to go with us first before they could be heard. And I think they even asked about severing that with the potential of getting the use variants first. then going in front of us for site plan, and then getting the variances. Because the variances, I don't wanna say are negotiable, but right, if they're saying you have to have 12 feet instead of eight feet or whatever, that's a simple change, right, relatively speaking, relatively. And I will, I actually, I didn't realize this, perhaps I'm not as caught up as I should be, but that, project has appealed and is in land court now. So I've asked Dennis to please keep us apprised of what happens with that, because they appealed the zoning board decision of denying that.
[Andre Leroux]: Yeah, actually, that was news to me. I hadn't realized that. So if that happens in the future, could you just let us know?
[Alicia Hunt]: I will tell you, I found out tonight when they said that on the meeting, I was messaging Dennis and getting more information. I mean really all he said is they've appealed. But I've asked him to keep me looped in on that. But that, so one of the things that won't happen if our, so are you guys all up to speed, up to date on the whole use variance thing? There's a big debate, are they allowed, not allowed in Medford, right? So there are two places in our zoning code, one set. So According to state law, you may issue use variances, your zoning board may, if your local ordinance explicitly allows use variances. If your local law is silent on it, then you may not issue use variances. Medford's ordinances is explicit about it in two different places. One place it says it may issue use variances, and in another place it says it may not issue use variances. So it contradicts itself. There was a debate at one point whether the one that says not was a typo, a Scribner's error. Some people believe it is, some people believe it's not. The current ZBA, all use variances have to be approved unanimously because of the numbers on it. There are three members, all three have to vote in favor. There's a member who refuses to vote in favor of them on principle. That's why that project was denied. And she in fact said during the public hearing, I think this is a great project. I'd love to see it in Medford, but we are not legally allowed to give use variances and therefore I'm voting against it. So it was extraordinarily clear. I thought that the applicant was actually encouraged to take it to the courts by what people said at that meeting. It came up, so this is something that our city council is debating now, is to with this zoning recodification, do you allow use variances or not? And the reason it's very relevant for us is because if use variances are going to be never allowed, then this issue never comes up again, and it's not such a big deal. But if they are allowed, then we should be cognizant of this and also work to figure out what is a process that doesn't drag a developer through this long process when they may then just get denied out of hand because we don't feel like approving an apartment building at that location. Right.
[Andre Leroux]: I mean, use variances should be rarely used, but in communities where the zoning is outdated, then, you know, they get used more often.
[Alicia Hunt]: We could fix the zoning. We'll try.
[Andre Leroux]: So there was also a reference to the consultant was going to look into the historic ordinance and demo delay to see how that relates to the permitting process, which I think would be good to understand more. Um, I was wondering whether there needs to be any kind of cross reference to the city's solar ordinance in our, in our zoning. Um, and also whether there, you know, are there opportunities to encourage energy efficiency or, uh, you know, green building standards in the zoning ordinance or whether that's, you know, just a design guideline thing. So, those were a couple of questions that I had. And particularly just, I think the most important one though is what I brought up earlier, which is what's the recommended process for lining all of these permits up with the different boards? I don't really know what best practice is. I don't know if David, you have any ideas or,
[David Blumberg]: I don't have any special insight on it, Andre.
[Alicia Hunt]: So there are communities that incentivize energy efficiency and stuff like that, clean energy, by offering a density bonus for including those things. The MAPC has been working on model examples. They've been working with some of our very local communities, because I couldn't tell you right now which communities, but it's from the Metro Mayors Group, which makes it really in here, Dan, close to us, and therefore, like us. Um, you know, something that that applies out in Concord may really not be appropriate in Medford. But, you know, you're looking at Somerville, Malden, Everett. This is really rational for us to be considering. Um, So, I don't know where they stand with that, but we could certainly, it won't be hard in the next few months to get recommendations, suggestions about how one can incentivize green building standards. within Massachusetts law. And just, I sometimes am not sure what I know because of my background versus what is more generally known. In Massachusetts, building code is it at the state level, and we cannot regulate, change the building code at the local level. That is different from other states in the country. So in many places, there are recommendations, oh, you could just adopt a more strict building code. We're not allowed to do that. The stretch code was that. We adopted it. But the building code is actually caught up to the stretch code. So what we adopted in 2010 is the stretch building code is actually now the building code and may have, in fact, gone more conservative. conservative, more environmentally conservative, right, more energy efficient than what was on them. So the way it's done in Massachusetts is rather than building code and regulating it, is offering carrots to be more. And the other thing that I've been told is expedited permitting. I, having worked in the middle of our permitting, cannot, have not been able to make any recommendations about how to expedite our permitting. And until this summer, I had been told by developers that we actually have one of the fastest permitting offices. And now I don't know if that included things like if it goes to the CD board or zoning, but our building department was very fast about issuing building permits. There was no way to speed it up. Not when something was taking two days, three days, get it signed off at the counter. When it goes through our longer process, though, I'm not sure how something that's coming through this board and the ZBA could realistically speed things up. Maybe some, but not a lot. So the others to offer density bonuses. And is that politically viable in Medford?
[Andre Leroux]: Are there other issues? We only have about 15 minutes. I'm wondering if there are other issues that you members would like to learn more about or ask questions of the consultant. I think we'd have to maybe do it through the city council since they're the client. And perhaps we don't do it in terms of a formal letter, but just direct the community development staff to inquire about certain things. That might be the easiest thing.
[Alicia Hunt]: I would recommend that we actually, I'm going to be sending a note to Mark Brodowski anyhow, with some of our files that we attach sort of, here's what we're thinking to that rather than trying to go through the city council.
[Andre Leroux]: Okay, well, to what extent can we, you know, massage the language of a letter after this meeting? I think we have to identify what the letter will say here.
[Nicole Morell]: Yeah, I've been taking some notes. If you want to continue sort of throwing some ideas out there, then I could draft something and it could be subject to Andre's review and approval?
[Andre Leroux]: Yes, David.
[David Blumberg]: I think that sounds good. Are we, at least as a board, very supportive of the modernization of zoning? It just seems like the city hasn't done much of any of this for 40-something years, and it's long overdue. I don't know if we have some of the questions that have already been raised and I'm sure Annie already has on her list. That's really great. We could pass along. But I imagine we also want to have an opportunity to weigh in when Mark comes back with more specific, with his recodification or his proposed recodification. And then I wonder too, Annie, I think it suggested looking at the actual application, the special permit application and the steps and that sort of stuff, like trying to make that look more like something from this decade. And then we have the rules and regs and procedures. I don't know, maybe we want to hustle those together so we're sort of getting them done while Mark's getting done his draft, or do we want to wait for that draft to be done and respond to it? That's one question I have.
[Andre Leroux]: Well, maybe what I would recommend is could we is authorizing Annie to put together a draft set of rules and regulations for the Community Development Board based on some of the research, looking at some of the other communities, and then circulating that to us for discussion at our next meeting. Does that make sense? Is that a quick enough timeline, you think, David, or are you thinking even faster?
[David Blumberg]: No, I think so. I'm just feeling bad because I know Annie has a lot of things to do. So I want to be helpful to her.
[Andre Leroux]: Well, you know, if there is a board member that wants to look at the different rules and regulations for a few different towns and then, you know, put a template together, obviously that would be great too.
[David Blumberg]: I'm happy to volunteer to do that. Oh, great. OK. Does that work, Annie?
[Nicole Morell]: That sounds wonderful. I'm happy to work with you, if you'd like. OK, great. It can be a group effort.
[Unidentified]: Thank you, David.
[Alicia Hunt]: The other thing that I feel like we should consider is in Mark's specific, in his memo that he gave to the board today, there was actual site plan contents talking about what the applicant should submit. And it's not, I have to tell you that I don't know how much it's in line or not in line with what we have because I haven't done a comparison. But it feels like we ought to and to see if there's any. Here's an easy fix. If there's something that we normally ask for and it's not in his list and we said to him sort of out of band, we'd like this. This is in our list. We'd like it to be in the list that you have in the thing there. And it was, you know, it doesn't mention bike racks, and we want bike racks, right? Then he would just put it in, right? He would just slip it in there. If it was like, we don't like your list, take it out completely. He's like, that's a substantial change, I can't do it. But if we want it tweaked, I think that he would be very like, open to that.
[Andre Leroux]: Well, I think that's a question we should raise in our correspondence to him is just what, uh, you know, to what extent are, does he recommend design guidelines to be incorporated into the zoning? Cause I don't, I think generally my, my impression is that it should be separate. You don't want to have to change the zoning every time you change the design guideline.
[Alicia Hunt]: And that's, I think, different from what sort of I was suggesting, but that's a question that we can ask him as well.
[Andre Leroux]: Right. Yeah, I'm curious about what he would recommend on that.
[Alicia Hunt]: Okay. I'm just, in case you guys don't know, Dennis McDougall, who just joined us, I had invited him to join, is the staff to the ZBA. So he also works here in our office. Thought this could be some good synergy and overlap.
[Andre Leroux]: Yeah.
[Alicia Hunt]: Well, if you want me to ask him about it, should we consider incorporating design guidelines into the ordinance or should we do it some other way?
[Andre Leroux]: Right. Yes. So, and there were a few areas on the memo itself that Bobrowski prepared where he was asking for guidance to go one way or the other. And in my opinion, I think that, you know, where he said pick one or both, generally my, I think my take on it was we should do both, because it seemed to provide the greatest clarity and flexibility. I generally agreed with everything that he was proposing. I didn't hear anything that I felt I had real concerns with. I think one area we might want to look at more closely is the criteria. Where is that? Let's see.
[Alicia Hunt]: Are you referring to page seven of his document? 10-4-2 by his numbering?
[Andre Leroux]: Yes, 10-4-2, right around special permits. So he's suggesting a new set of criteria for special permits. And how to basically evaluate proposals subject to special permits. So it'd be modernizing that and in this set of criteria that he uses in in communities when he was writing zoning are Let's see, the determination shall include consideration of each of the following. A, social, economic, or community needs, which are served by the proposal. B, traffic flow and safety, including parking and loading. C, adequacy of utilities and other public services. D, neighborhood character and social structures. E, impacts on the natural environment. And F, potential fiscal impact, including impact on city services, tax base, and employment. You know, it's different than what we currently have around special permits. I know we're not like the special permit granting authority. So we may not want to weigh in on that, but we do weigh in on projects that are requesting special permits.
[David Blumberg]: Andrew, were there particular ones? Did you think that it conflicted with something in your mind or was troubling to you? I think he was presenting these as, hey, these are categories that seem to have stood up to litigation and challenge and they're probably getting to the gist of what everyone wants to evaluate anyway.
[Andre Leroux]: Yeah, well what he was, I guess where I flagged it is because he then connected it to the fees and said that often, you know, the the board, the special permit granting authority, can adopt administrative fees and technical review fees for applications. So oftentimes, I think he even gave an example, he said, so these A through F, these criteria, oftentimes a community will, a municipality will hire a consultant to look and do a study on each one of these criteria for really major projects. So, you know, that's something we really haven't talked about as a board because we, for site plan review, can also do that. We can have, you know, we can request fees for studies, third-party studies, that, you know, we can then use to evaluate projects.
[Alicia Hunt]: So one concern that has been raised is that the phrasing neighborhood character, social structures, can be very well-meaning, but it also has been used historically to abet discrimination. And in fact, apparently the word neighborhood character has been identified as code for racial discrimination. Now, I wouldn't know that if somebody didn't bring that to me and tell me that. It's not obvious to me. And I think that there is a lot to be said for, well, how is it used? But at the same time, it may behoove us to question this and to question, to really think it through, like, what is it that you actually, because you do want, you know, There are things, right, you don't want a gambling parlor in the middle of a residential neighborhood. Maybe you don't want a Target plopped in the middle of a residential neighborhood, but that's not allowed by your zoning. If your zoning allows businesses, if Walmart wanted to come in where Target was, as much as I hate Walmart, can I discriminate against them? You know, if they were owned by a Black company, like, would this give us the ability to discriminate? Should, like, I just want us to be cognizant of it and aware. I don't have a recommendation.
[Andre Leroux]: Wish I did. Right. That was one of the things that did kind of raise a red flag with me when I saw that. I was a little surprised just to see that there because it seems like a term that's a little out of date.
[SPEAKER_07]: Alicia, I'm glad you raised that, because I think words matter, right? Language matters, intent matters. You know, it matters. And if the language is really outdated and has intent, even if it's not obvious to the reader, I'm really, really glad you raised that. And I think that would be something important for this board to discuss.
[Andre Leroux]: Yeah. And I think in the letter, our letter, we should kind of point out that concern and ask him why he uses it.
[Jacqueline McPherson]: I missed the context of who said what. I'm sorry.
[Andre Leroux]: So in the memo from Mark Bobrowski, the zoning consultant to the city council, he listed a set of criteria. And one of the criteria says for evaluating special permits says neighborhood character. And that term is kind of a red flag.
[Alicia Hunt]: I don't know. I'm more red flagged by and social structures. Like that just rubs me wrong.
[Andre Leroux]: I don't even know what that means really.
[Jenny Graham]: That's the one that I'm hung up on is social structures because that's like targeting a specific economic state of a neighborhood.
[Jacqueline McPherson]: It's not just race. There's so many things that when you say neighborhood, character and social structures. We're talking, we don't want new families in, we want all rich people that live in Medford. That's pretty much, and especially, maybe I can just be a little bit more sensitive to it right now, because I'm studying intensely to pass my exam in a couple of weeks. So I'm revisiting all of the historic redlining and the history of zoning being racist and things like that. And the fact that that term is even in something current today, I had not known this, but these are terms that were used to keep communities a certain way. So I'm very glad that you raised it, because it would have went over my head.
[Andre Leroux]: And I think if in his explanation, what he said was that neighborhood character is more around, you know, aesthetics. Does something fit in? And then social structures is more about like the community, the relationships in that community. And I just think there's, both of that makes sense, but you could have better terms for both of those things.
[Jacqueline McPherson]: Yeah. And I get neighborhood character can also, it doesn't have to be implicitly like to keep certain things out. The home, what is it, the HOAs of America, they pretty much have neighborhood character. That's what they exist for, right? To make sure that all the houses look alike, that you're not gonna have a pink house among all these nice white row houses and things like that when you own. So I get it, but it questions the intent behind it. And if we're questioning the intent behind it, I can only assume that others would.
[Alicia Hunt]: Right, like if it said like building style, is that what is meant? when neighborhood character is said in a well-meaning way, right, like in a positive way, is that what they mean, right? Like the building style, the architectural style? Because you could see if you had a historic neighborhood or if you had a whole modern neighborhood and suddenly you were putting in a building that was very different architecturally, you'd at least want to do that intentionally and have the ability to say, We don't really think that that architectural style fits. I don't get it myself. I'm not an architect. But let me tell you, my son does when we drive around town. He's like, that one doesn't fit. So Clay says architect.
[Jacqueline McPherson]: What do you think? He's like, I'm not touching this right now.
[zMDmsK0LIsU_SPEAKER_03]: I don't think there's enough minutes in this day.
[Andre Leroux]: And speaking of which, it is 8.30. We did want to keep this to an hour, so I want to respect that. Annie, do we need to have a formal motion on sending the letter? Can we do that informally?
[Nicole Morell]: A motion is probably a good thing.
[Andre Leroux]: Well, before we do that then, anybody who hasn't spoken, are there issues or questions you want to raise around the zoning that we haven't talked about? And just so you know, at the next, I think there's four sessions that this consultant has with the city council. This, I believe, was the second one. The next one, he said he was going to come with his proposal for reformatting the use table of the city and cleaning that up. So again, these are really good meetings. Annie, if you could just kind of let us know when they're happening so that board members can participate. Strongly encourage all of you to follow along with them, because I think they're really helpful.
[Nicole Morell]: Yeah, may schedule the next one for the 18th.
[Alicia Hunt]: which will be immediately followed by an energy and environment symposium on unusual uses of solar, trees in Medford, and clean energy transportation from seven to nine that night. This is, symposium's long scheduled. They don't check the city calendar when they schedule their own meetings. They don't care what anybody else's.
[Andre Leroux]: Sorry. Just for the info for both of those to the members, that would be great.
[SPEAKER_07]: And are we still meeting two weeks from today? Is that our next meeting?
[Andre Leroux]: Annie, do you see anything coming up for that meeting?
[Nicole Morell]: I think something in mid-November would be better because that will give enough time for some of the Macklin road review by the city engineer and recommendation back to our board. So, um,
[Andre Leroux]: Okay, probably we can also yeah, I don't assuming there's not a you know, some new projects coming up either I think we should set aside an hour of time for the design guideline discussion. I know we were going to start that we didn't do that tonight. So gives everybody a little bit more time to maybe look at some of the material that Jackie sent out or do some of their own research. If you see anything interesting, please circulate it and and then we can Maybe Annie, we can work on structuring that discussion a little bit more or putting a kind of a straw proposal in front of people that they can respond to.
[Alicia Hunt]: I just want to call to your attention that there are no Wednesday nights in November that are good to meet. Because the next council one is the 18th. And while you're welcome to meet after it, I actually really do have to be at the Energy and Environment Symposium because I staff that. The week after that is Veterans Day holiday. The week before is the day after Election Day. We've been trying not to schedule things for that day.
[Andre Leroux]: What about Thursday the 12th, which is the day after Veterans Day?
[Alicia Hunt]: The only thing that is on the calendar is that the Community Preservation Committee public presentations are supposed to be that evening.
[Jenny Graham]: Yeah, I can't do that. I'd like to be at that.
[Andre Leroux]: Can we do Tuesday the 10th, the day before Veterans Day?
[Alicia Hunt]: I will tell you that week that the housing production plan is going to have a webinar on November 9th, Monday. So actually, sorry, I didn't even, glad we looked at the calendar. We are gonna circulate to you all the draft recommendations before that. That'll be a good presentation to the public of their draft recommendations. And that time window before, after is when we'd really like to get any substantial changes back. By the time the housing production plan is presented to this board, We're hoping that people will have seen the early drafts and will have weighed in. And it'll be more, I don't want to call it a rubber stamp, but this board needs to approve it. So I'm hoping that if people have concerns and questions that we can get them addressed beforehand. And November 9th is the public meeting where we're going to present that information. So that's the window where we're really looking for your feedback. Just because if you may not want to have meetings every single night in a week. Although Wednesday's a holiday, I give the day off, hopefully.
[Andre Leroux]: Right. So Annie, in terms of a day, any recommendations for mid-November?
[Nicole Morell]: We could do it a little earlier and do the Thursday the 5th.
[Alicia Hunt]: There's also CPC public presentations that night. There's Thursday the 19th or Thursday the 17th.
[SPEAKER_07]: Thursday the 19th looks fine.
[Jacqueline McPherson]: It's fine for me. I would love anything after the 16th, for selfish reasons. I'm waiting for everyone else.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'll be on edge. That's fine. Throw it out there, Jackie.
[Andre Leroux]: All right. Well, the 19th, that's just the 18th is the next city council zoning meeting, and then the symposium that Alicia was talking about.
[Alicia Hunt]: So the 19th, we can do just I guess I'm gonna just flag that that is a month from now and whether so we'll try and circulate materials before that, like significantly Around rules and regulation changes, stuff like that. And we'll plan to meet even if there's nothing on the note cases so that we can move forward. Some of these, Allie reminded us that she's also been tasked with doing some research on linkage fees, which were supposed to be reviewed every three years and haven't been changed since they were implemented in the early 90s. But our rules and regulations are from 1974, so.
[SPEAKER_07]: City government's hard.
[Alicia Hunt]: Love that they're dated December 17th, 1974.
[Andre Leroux]: Is there anyone on the committee who is really interested in design guidelines and would like to do some work in the next month on putting a strop proposal together? If not, that's fine. Annie and I will do the best we can.
[Nicole Morell]: One thing I did want to flag for you guys is, are we talking about a separate design review process or looping it in to a planning board process through the site plan review? And that may be a session for an attorney as well about what we can do.
[Andre Leroux]: I mean, I think it's just part of the site plan review process.
[Nicole Morell]: Because I do believe that would require some changes to the zoning to build out what our standards for site plan approval are. But that could be a question that we bring up to Attorney Brobrosky.
[Andre Leroux]: Let's do that. Let's include that. I mean, would there be any reason for us to have a design review process that's not part of a site plan review process?
[Nicole Morell]: Only that most of the ones I've been able to find are separate. I don't know exactly why that is or what the advantage is. Some of the materials Jackie sent were saying also that design guidelines should be based in the comprehensive plan goals so that they're defensible, so I think this may be something that comes out of that planning process. But it's really something that I'm happy to look into more.
[Andre Leroux]: So is your, are you saying any, do you think as a result of that, we should just kind of go slow and wait for, you know, do what we're doing, which has been more of an informal process?
[Nicole Morell]: I think it'd be good to get some feedback from, the city solicitor or attorney Wabrowski about sort of what our options are, but I think that it would certainly be helpful to determine what we might want out of the comprehensive planning process. But I think maybe, just from what I've read so far, it seems like there was sort of a need to base, to have some backup for why we're enforcing these design guidelines. I don't know if any of you are more familiar with other communities where you've worked with design guidelines.
[Jenny Graham]: The design guidelines come from zoning or some master plan. But the only other thing I was thinking in the interim is that you develop guidance for proponents of what to come prepared with at the presentations to our board to make it easier for everybody. I mean, that's sort of where we're always having
[Andre Leroux]: We ask the same question. So people can have it again, we give out a checklist of saying here's you can expect questions on these things.
[Nicole Morell]: Like, well, and I also get a lot of calls. Yeah, from developers in advance of submitting. So I think like an FAQ document might be a good A good thing to do anyway.
[Jenny Graham]: Yeah, I mean, I'm used to the city of Boston is very complex and they have built into their zoning, you know, there's specific articles of zoning dedicated to each neighborhood and within that neighborhood zoning, it has very specific design guidelines to be compatible with that neighborhood. I mean, that's very complex, but that's, unless you really wanna get into an overhaul like that in the city of Medford and look at different areas and neighborhoods, and talk about neighborhood context and compatibility, that's a lot of work.
[Jacqueline McPherson]: No, not only it's a lot of work, but not only will it have implications later for inadvertently or maybe purposely segregating communities when you have neighborhood character compiled into different pockets of one community, it doesn't read well or play out well. But I thank Annie for bringing that up. I ran to get my notes because I haven't memorized it, but I do know that a lot of the American planning literature out there have always coupled design review guidelines with comprehensive planning. I don't know what that looks like at the local level myself, because I don't work with, this is the first comprehensive plan that I've ever even touched, which I haven't even touched. I haven't even provided help or feedback or anything when Alicia has asked for it. I'm just guessing that it has to do with the city's master plan and the city's overall vision so that everything is holistically come together.
[Andre Leroux]: Well, I think that we have a good of discussion that can be part of a letter that you know Annie and I can can massage. Annie do you want to just hit any of the the notes that you that you took to make sure we're not missing anything?
[Nicole Morell]: Sure, so what I have here is Information on what the recommended process would be for lining all of our different development review items up. The best opportunity for the community development board to weigh in or participate in this process. Some more information that he mentioned he was going to look into on demolition delay and the historic process and how that fits in with his proposed changes. Any opportunities for cross-reference to the City's Solar Ordinance? Opportunities to encourage energy efficiency and green building standards in the Zoning Ordinance? To what extent does he recommend design guidelines or a design review process? Should this be incorporated into the Ordinance or should we do it some other way? And the wording of neighborhood character and social structures. and concerns about that and why he uses that.
[Andre Leroux]: Sorry, you mentioned design, like how to handle design guidelines, right?
[Unidentified]: Mm-hmm.
[Andre Leroux]: Do we miss anything, anybody? Or do you want to add anything? All right, why don't we entertain a motion to send a letter with our feedback Well, I don't want to cross the city council is the only thing. Why don't we, why don't we send maybe the letter to Alicia?
[Alicia Hunt]: Right. If you send it to me, because theoretically this board is appointed by the mayor and would go to the mayor, to the council.
[Andre Leroux]: So why don't, why don't we direct the letter to, the Director of Community Development, and to ask for her and her staff to get feedback on these questions we've raised.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'll make that motion, Andre.
[Andre Leroux]: Great. Thank you, Katie. Is there a second?
[Jenny Graham]: I'll second.
[Andre Leroux]: Thank you, Christy. I will do a roll call vote now. Yes, no, or abstain. Deanna Peabody?
[zMDmsK0LIsU_SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: Christy Dowd?
[zMDmsK0LIsU_SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: Klaus Andreasen?
[zMDmsK0LIsU_SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: David Blumberg? Yes. Katie McHugh?
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: And Jackie Furtado?
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: I'm also a yes. All right. Thanks, everybody. Is there a motion to adjourn?
[Jacqueline McPherson]: So moved, motion.
[Andre Leroux]: All right, thank you, Jackie. Is there a second? Les, thank you. Roll call. Deanna Peabody?
[Unidentified]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: Christy Dowd?
[Unidentified]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: Klaus Andreessen? Yes. David Blumberg? Yes. Katie McHugh?
[Unidentified]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: Jackie Furtado?
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[Andre Leroux]: I'm a yes as well. Great. Thank you, everybody. I appreciate it. We did go over a little bit, but not too much.
[SPEAKER_07]: Good job, Andrew.
[Andre Leroux]: I'll take 15 minutes every day. All right. We'll see you in mid-November. Did we agree on November 18th or 19th? 19th.
[SPEAKER_07]: 19th.
[Andre Leroux]: All right. We'll go. Let's aim for that. Great. Thanks, everyone.
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